Michael Hellickson has been a leader in the real estate industry, where he built a multi-million dollar business as a real estate agent, eventually becoming the Nations #1 real estate agent. During his career, Hellickson has spoken to and coached thousands of students and organizations nationwide. Michael has been featured on several national television and radio programs including:

  • Glenn Beck
  • CNBC
  • The Dave Ramsey Show
  • The Fox Business Network
  • And many other local & regional programs

In this episode, Brian and Michael talk about how to make working virtually more productive, what adjustments agents can make to stay successful during COVID-19, and how Club Wealth has become the industry standard in profitability coaching. 

In this episode, we talk about…

  • 2:54 – Michael answers the need to know question of “will we go back to how things were before COVID-19, here’s what he says.
  • 5:22 – With everyone being more productive virtually, this is how to work virtually and set up a virtual event for success
  • 13:12 – It doesn’t matter what industry you are in, you can make these adjustments to stay successful and have the best months you have ever had.
  • 23:38 – There are two types of thinkers: “Either Or” and “Both And”, but which one will still be successful in the next 24 months?
  • 32:15 – How standing and moving can convey emotion and your message properly to clients over the phone.
  • 36:13 – Club Wealth has set the standard on Profitability Coaching, here’s how they do an excellent job.
  • 41:39 – The teams that are Jacks of all trades, master of none will see far less success than teams that segment buyers and sellers.
  • 47:53 – Michael’s Final thoughts and advice

Show Transcript

Brian Charlesworth 0:35
Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the GRIT podcast. I’m Brian Charlesworth. I’m the founder of Sisu and I’m your host of the show today and today it’s a great honor to have my first two time guest meaning Michael Hellickson from Club Wealth is joining us for the second time and trust me, that’s not because we have a shortage of guests, but it’s because Last time Michael and I spoke we had so much to talk about, we could have gone for hours, I got to let him share a lot about how he founded Club Wealth. And to give you guys some great tips on what you should be doing as agents, but with the times being where we are today COVID-19 has taken a lot of businesses down many of your real estate businesses, and many of you are still having a tremendous amount of success. So I thought there would be no better time than to bring Michael back on the show to talk about what’s the difference between those who are having a tremendous amount of success today. And those who are struggling or failing or possibly even going out of business. And it’s not a joke, right? I mean, people are in the situation they’re in. In some cases because of mindset, and some cases with New York City, shutting down entirely people couldn’t go out. So it’s harder to make Shift if you’re in that market, and to do what you need to do to be safe and still be productive, but there’s so much going on in today’s world that I really wanted to have Michael back. Also, Michael just did a convention that we’re going to talk about today. But we were a part of that. And see, Sue ended up sitting in rooms where, if any of you have been to a convention, you know, if you’re displaying at a convention, you can only talk to one person at a time. And we found ourselves talking to 15 or 20 people at a time. So it was a way more effective things way of doing things. And so how things change in the way we do business? Or will we ever go back to doing business the way we were before? And so these are some of the things we wanted to talk about. Michael, welcome to the show. Founder/CEO Club Wealth, it’s an honor to have you here today.

Michael Hellickson 2:54
It’s an honor to be here. I appreciate you having me, Brian. Yeah, no, this is, you know, yes, the question. about, you know, will we ever go back to the way things were? And I think in a lot of cases, the answer is actually, yes. In terms of, you know, people, people ask about these virtual events, for example, you know, they’re, you know, and in listening to boot camp certainly show that for vendors, at least, you know, for the vendor partners that we work with. And for a lot of the attendees, you know, there’s a lot of efficiency that can be created in a virtual event. But people are dying to get next to each and that’s a terrible use of words, but they’re anxious to get back together again and get face to face and have that human interaction again, and do I think that we may see some diminished attendance at some events? Yeah, I think that’s very possible. I think you know, that that could happen at the same time. I also think that, you know, travels cheap right now. hotels are going to be cheap for a while. That industry It’s hurting just like everybody else. And they’re doing everything they can to make their pricing as aggressive as possible, but attract people into their hotels and their airlines and you name it. And people again, they want to be close to each other. So I think you’re gonna see what we’re doing aren’t in November we got so we have our next virtual event coming up in July. So certainly the virtual events are going to continue to happen. So I don’t think it’s an either or I think it’s both.

Brian Charlesworth 4:24
So let’s talk about that. Because when you say virtual events, those who are really driving the needle forward, those who are making a huge impact on the industry, I mean, I’ve seen agents, they’re doing virtual events. So I’ve seen agents that have actually done a virtual event and they’ve attracted like 15,000 followers in a week by putting together a virtual event where people were coming in to speak. So let’s talk about the value of virtual events. I can’t tell you how many people have come to me and said Wow, you You guys have been doing business this way, forever. And now I’m seeing this is like one of the largest companies in real estate and they’re saying, we’re seeing all of our people are more productive. They don’t have the drive time. They don’t have the talk time. So let’s talk about virtual working virtual events, that kind of stuff. But what is a virtual event, Michael? What is that?

Michael Hellickson 5:22
I mean, by sheer definition, a virtual event is simply an event that happens online. And so, you know, for us, we had a we had a big event, you know, this listening to boot camp we had earlier in the year. We had planned it was supposed to be in person, it was up in Scotts air in Chandler, Arizona, you know, had the hotel buck, you’re on the hook for, you know, just over $600,000 to put on this event. Had you know, 500 people registered for this event wanted to come and he and, man I gotta say it was you know, when COVID hit, it’s like, oh my gosh, the event was in April. All sudden were like, Oh my gosh, what are we going to do here because not only do we have to You know, the money was small issue to it that the bigger issue was we have a responsibility to all these people, both to provide them with a great event that they learn a ton from that they get to network and get to know one another and mastermind and really take their game to the next level, and to keep them safe while doing so. And to not put them in a position of endangering their lives, frankly. And that’s a tough balance. And so we got to a point where we had to make a decision to switch the event from an in person event to an online event prior to figuring out the money. Yeah, so we didn’t know if the hotel was gonna let us off the hook on the 600,000 Plus or not. But we needed to make the decision anyway. And it was imperative that we that we move in the right direction, so we switched it to an online but well at that point to your point, you know, all the vendors like well, gosh, we just paid to be at this live event. You know, are we really going to get our money’s worth out of it. If it’s an you know if it’s online instead of live and How are you going to do this? And the fact of the matter is, I wasn’t sure either, but I knew I was going to figure it out. So, yeah, I mean, the fact the matter is there’s there were no platforms out there that can really handle an event like ours. You know, with our event, we have as many as well, like the breakout sessions alone, you know, we have as many as 11 breakout sessions happening at any given time, right for different types of agency and whether it’s a buyer agent, a listing agent, a team leader, broker owner, whatever. And so how do you do a live event where you have video to video so we didn’t want to do we know we looked at there’s a there’s a product called for Bella out there let’s ESP uses for Bella to do their conferences and stuff in there. That’s one option and then there’s just using zoom and that’s an option but the reality is we wanted connectivity. And we wanted people to be able to video to video face to face with each other. And then we also in needed able to control who could be there because people are paid to be at this event. So we had to control Who could come in? And who could go to what sessions? I mean, it gets pretty complicated pretty fast, right? Oh, and then stack on top of that, during the breaks, you have to be able to have 21 concurrent vendor booths happening at the same time. Do that. Now, how do you do that? VIDEO.

Brian Charlesworth 8:16
How did you do that? Yes. Tell us more.

Michael Hellickson 8:19
We have three full time developers in house. And at the time, we get to actually really one and a half one plus an intern. And it was 18 hour days, literally for almost 45 days, it was 18 hour days putting this platform where we built our own platform. So essentially, we tied Facebook zoom to Infusionsoft which is our CRM. So we’ve made it so that when people log into the how to use Facebook, because we know nobody’s going to give their Facebook password to somebody else, right? That’s just us don’t do that. Yeah. And so we knew that would provide us with the security we needed, so that we can tie their Facebook account to their account with our CRM, so we knew who they were. And we had their credit card on file and all that we knew what their tagging was. So we knew if they had access to this or not, they paid for it or not. And then we could tie that to zoom so that we could go video to video, we can control which rooms they could be on video and it sounds complicated. It’s 10 times more complicated than it sounds. And you know that because you’re a tech guy. So know how crazy this is. And as a tech guy, you know, I mean, the zoom does not have their oh my gosh, what’s it called? It’s not First of all, it’s not even a real it’s a it’s okay API. But they don’t have their what’s the camera anyway, they haven’t really gone to the level of really providing great access to their platform outside their platform.

Brian Charlesworth 9:41
So that’s that would be their API. So

Michael Hellickson 9:43
well, it’s more than their API. There’s another word for it. It’s not SMP it’s, Oh, my gosh, I’ll tell you all I asked for developers and I’ll tell you what it is. But point being we brought it all together figured out in like three days before the event. I’m just freaking out. Is this gonna work? I’m like scared. And so what I did was I said, Okay, look, if we’re sure there’s gonna be customer services, right, just just trying to get people to be able to log in with their iPad or their iPhone, because as you know, androids real easy to work with. Apple sucks. I mean, developing an apple is so hard, like, they just make everything difficult. So three days before they’ve asked, okay, well, we know we’re gonna have customer service issues. So we have two options where we can’t fix it, we can’t we can’t make it perfect. But what we can do is we can have 17 people in a live Help Desk throughout the entire event, so that no matter that, so there’s no possible way that more people will need help than we could. Right so what we did was we did a series of we said, okay, we’re gonna have all these people log in a few days early, we’re gonna encourage them log in a few days early so we can resolve issues and we and we phased it in so that the day of the event, we were not only able to handle every customer service issues, the technic near the technical glitches or whatever they encountered. We got done very Very quickly, it was almost better than if we didn’t have the issues because they got a chance to experience and you know, touch and feel our customer service. Yeah. Which was huge. So that was important. So that was an unintended consequence of a very potentially very bad downside. But it worked out.

Brian Charlesworth 11:19
So I mean it. It was phenomenal. I know everybody involved was so impressed. So tell us you had how many vendors you had how many people show up? Did you end up having your full 500 attend? Or

Michael Hellickson 11:34
Well, no, we had like 560 attend. We ended up with it was crazy. And I could be wrong on that exact number, but it was well over the 500 that we originally had.

Brian Charlesworth 11:45
And this was a two day event. Is that right?

Michael Hellickson 11:47
It was a two day all I was originally planned as a four day conference. We used to have coaches day one day and then three days of conference and we ran this one. I’m sorry, was it two or three days on this one?

Brian Charlesworth 11:57
I think it might have been three actually.

Michael Hellickson 11:59
I think you’re right. I think it was three days. And usually that lasted for three months. Oh, yeah, we did. We did. We went three days, we kept the same schedule as we had before. Our next one we’re doing is a two day. But we did do this one as a three day and what’s one of the things that’s really tough about doing an online event that’s really critical, is you’ve got to get that connectivity got to get that networking happening. And that’s not easy to do online, as you found, you know, for getting people into that Zoom Room for you as a vendor is mission critical, right? Because now it’s it’s actually easier than about that an in person event, because a captive audience now and you don’t have to compete with all the noise at the other booths and the hallway and all that stuff. So from that standpoint, I think it worked out really well for vendors. From an attendee standpoint, what was really cool for them is they could pop in and out of vendors whenever they wanted. They could easily connect with vendors. I could see him face to face And it was much more organism’s faster to go from room to room this way than it would have been in person didn’t have to walk all the way down the hall to go find the right room and all this stuff.

Brian Charlesworth 13:12
Yeah. So Frank was on there from Sisu, it wasn’t me. And he said that the beautiful thing about it was he could present like 15 people at one time, which you could not do that as a live conference. Right? So anyway, it ended up being a great thing for us and I think a great thing for you. So congratulations on pulling that off. I just wanted to hit that really quick to start with. And I think the exciting thing about that is it share it really shares and shows everybody. I don’t care what business you’re in. You can make adjustments today. I know people who own restaurants, who are now at a business. I also know people who own restaurants. who are serving more meals today than they ever served? Because they’re at capacity in their buildings. There’s a restaurant here in Utah that has two locations. And they’re not opening up even though they’ve said you can open up your locations because they’re actually sending more meals out the door than they’ve ever done. Because people are just going and picking it up, right? Or, or you’ve got Uber Eats or you know, any of the others. Right And so, so anyway, there’s shifts that can be made so turning that to real estate. Yeah. What should we be doing? We being what should agents teams, broker owners, what should these guys be doing in this environment to stay successful? summers I mean it I know you’ve seen this. I know I’ve seen this. Some are still having the best months. They’ve ever had in their lives. And some are really, really struggling may even be out of business. So it really doesn’t matter what industry you’re in. And I think real estate included, even though Real Estate’s been tagged as an essential business, some people are afraid to go out some people depending on where you’re at, in New York would be a bigger challenge. So Michael, tell us in today’s environment, what should someone be doing? What What is the difference between those that are failing and those that are having the best month ever?

Michael Hellickson 15:33
So the first thing they can be doing that everybody needs to be doing if you want to be successful going forward, stop listening, people that aren’t successful doing what you want to do. Quit taking advice from people that have no business giving you advice. And right now, there’s a lot more of that out there than it is advice for people who should be giving advice. There’s so many people out there that want to talk about the boo boo and the you know, the all the problems associated with this. And like I don’t know I don’t mean to be callous or insensitive. And I get I empathize and sympathize with those people out there that have gone through real health concerns, lost loved ones, and so forth, I get that, I get that. You know what you can’t focus on that if you if you focus on that you will not get productive. And I’m telling you what this world needs right now needs everybody in it to get productive. It needs everybody in it to pull themselves up by the bootstraps, develop a little bit of grit and figure out how are we going to make this work instead of worrying about all the reasons why it won’t? And as we focus on that, you know, you’ve heard the phrase, you know, if you’re focused on light, you can’t see the darkness, right. So if we’re focused on the positive and we searched for the opportunities in the cast gas a lot, we’ll find them shinzou great quote from Shinji right? Is that where there’s chaos, there’s opportunity. Never before in real estate, have we seen an opportunity like this one? Furthermore, like if you look at the Japanese kanji for crisis, right, it’s made up of two cons. One is danger, and opportunity is the other. So in every crisis, there’s danger and there’s opportunity to Difference between right now there’s a divide chasm in real estate, if you will. And it applies to brokers as well as agents and everybody else in this industry. There’s a chasm that chasm is this crisis. And it’s whether you are on the danger side or the opportunity side, I can tell you over and over and over again, I’m talking to our brokers, broker owner coaching unit agent on the broker owner side. I’m hearing from tons of our brokers, they’re recruiting more people now than ever before. Why? Because the agent who’s who they’re recruiting their brokers ignoring them right now their broker saying, oh, we’re close down, don’t don’t do this. Just go be your family. Chill out, relax, we’ll get back to it when we get back to it. Man, that is the worst thing you might have told us hang up a sign that says close, never opening again. Like..

Brian Charlesworth 17:44
Go to another brokerage. (jokingly)

Michael Hellickson 17:46
I mean, that’s, that’s literally what they’re doing right now. And so instead what you need to be doing is you need to be reaching out to people and we, I mean, early on, like literally in the very beginning of all this. We started telling people looking in college You’re sort of influencing you see how you doing? If you’re a broker, call your agent, how you doing? And instead of commiserating with their misery, help pull them out of that misery and give them reasons why and and steps how to overcome what’s going on and be a part of the solution and not a part of the problem.

Brian Charlesworth 18:20
So don’t get your advice from the news is what you’re saying?

Michael Hellickson 18:24
Oh, no, that’s the worst thing. watch the news. Like every Believe me, you’ll hear what’s going on. You don’t need to watch the news to figure that out. What you need to focus on is call your clients make your lead generation lead, follow up and lead conversion calls. focus on building your pipeline. Oh, my gosh, I’m in one of those markets like New York or Pennsylvania where we’re completely shut down. We can. Okay, great. You can still do virtual showings you can still Oh no, Michael. We can’t do virtual showings we can’t even get in the house. Does the seller have a cell phone? That is a smartphone does it have a camera on it? Can they take a video for you stop coming up with so many excuses why You can’t even come up with a reason or two why you can.

Brian Charlesworth 19:05
So you can have reasons or results, right?

Michael Hellickson 19:08
I always love to tell people you could be right or you could be rich, right? Like in the right reasons results you got to choose, you got to make a choice. You got to take a stand right here right now. Because I’m telling you and by the way, it’s already happening. Mostly ages, we’re just talking about this earlier 80% of our football flights are literally in March, April had the best month ever both in terms of over transactions closed as well as number of transactions written. That’s much better. Now listen, if you’re not one of those if you’re the 20% is struggling and if you’re in it, you’re just feeling oh my gosh, my world is caving in listen to a couple of things you can use. Number one, get on your knees and pray. And by the way, when I say get on your knees and pray, don’t just ask for business. Ask your heavenly Father fix your frickin head actually fit Heavenly Father fix your mindset. That’s where you got to start. Get your mindset straight. First, begin with the end in mind, understand first And by the way, a first step in that is starting to legitimately counting your blessings out loud. I know that sounds crazy, and I don’t need to get all religious on you. But do you need to start counting your blessings to understand what you’re grateful for what is going right in your life, figure that out, and then focus on that, and then build on that. And then start thinking about Okay, all these great things are happening in my life. I have family that loves me, I have friends that care about me I have whatever it is in your life that’s going on. Then start saying, okay, where do I want to be? What do I really want to accomplish? What am I committed to accomplishing? Okay, great. Now what’s it going to take to get there and ask for clarity on that don’t ask for the result that he handed to you ask for clarity and how you can go get the result and then go do it.

Brian Charlesworth 20:55
So first thing is mindset. Just to to back up and clarify what I just heard, have the mindset. If you don’t have the mindset, get on your knees and figure out how to get the mindset and something you said there is, figure out what you’re grateful for, because you can’t be in a position of gratitude and fear at the same time, right? And fear is what is stopping you from actually getting out there and doing stuff. And then the second thing I heard Michael is be resourceful. So you know, I don’t care. You said, I don’t care if you’re in New York or Pennsylvania, be resourceful. There’s a way to have a showing. And there’s a way to have that happen. There’s a way to have a buyer consult. There’s a way to do everything sitting in your house. So figure it out.

Michael Hellickson 21:44
I’m going to say we are seeing so much of this happening across the country right now. Early on, I mean, literally 60 days ago, almost 70 days ago now we have one of our clients, California, Jefferson, great guys club wealth coaching client for probably five, six years. wonderful guy. He and Kelly they’re just crushing it now I got to say when this all started out he had a listing appointment scheduled and just figured he couldn’t go to on the listing appointment all sudden so he says well let’s do it virtually. This was an expired listing agent that had it before had a lower commission and a higher price than what he was suggesting to the seller. But Jeff got the listing at the at the lower price and the higher commission and by the way, sold it and he did it all over zoom. never went to the house. Didn’t need to you guys this is what I’m saying. Like, again, where there’s chaos, there’s opportunity. Sellers still want to sell. Buyers still want to buy. Agents still want to find a better broker and a better brokerage. And guess what moves are happening all over the place, get in front of them, find opportunities to get in front of them.

Brian Charlesworth 22:59
Okay, so those are some I mean, if I’m an agent, which I am still an agent, but not not really an active agent, but and I think about being able to sell a house without ever actually going to that house, I think, why would I ever want to go back? So that’s my question, Michael, where do you see the industry in the next 24 months? I mean, is it going back or people going to adopt these new ways of doing business, which are actually more efficient?

Michael Hellickson 23:38
Hey, write these four words down. “Either Or” and then next line would be “Both And”

Brian Charlesworth 23:48
what’s the second line?

Michael Hellickson 23:49
“Both And” both. First line is Either Or second line is Both And. You want to know the difference between agents that are going to be successful in the next 24 months and the ones that aren’t start there. They just they’re gonna fail next 24 months, they’re either or thinkers, right? They are scarcity minded, they think you can either do this or you can do that I can either do virtual assist in a virtual appointments and survive, or i or i can stay at home and not and not even below or worse when the market shifts, right. So right now we’ve got people that are doing virtual appointments, when this market really takes a shift, and we get back into we can be face to face with people, you’re gonna have people that just like they use COVID as an excuse not to go out and get business, they now will use the fact that while we every time virtual, so I don’t need to go to the house, they’ll use that as the excuse for not going to the house. I’m telling you guys, here’s the key, it’s both and you need to offer both and the other, right, so I need to be able to do stuff virtually for those people that want to do it virtually. And I’ve got to be willing to go to the house for those people that want to do the house. I’ve got to do both thing. And if I’ll do that, if I’ll make sure that both are tools in my arsenal and there’s ways to do them say you can go physically do it safely. We’ve, that’s proven right? It’s ridiculous to think that you cannot be in public safely, you can do it, you just have to take precautions. So that being said, those that figure that out, they are going to crush it. Now there’s another wave coming. Right? So not only do we have this whole COVID thing, but we have the aftermath of COVID. Right. So and the aftermath of COVID Some will say that it’s that it’s that it’s a health issue of site, you know, that it’s, that code is going to come back, we’ll give him another, you know, Spike or whatever, whether that happens or not, here’s what is going to happen. What is going to happen is we’re gonna have economic consequences of what just happened, period, end of story that’s going to happen. We don’t know the extent of it. We have no way of telling what the extent of it is right now, most markets, we’re still seeing super low inventory and super high demand. We’re seeing massive multiple offers with escalation clauses on lots of properties all over the country, even before They’ve been viewed inside. I mean, come on, guys, we’re in a new world for most people. That being said, guess what? That’s gonna change. When this when this all comes down when we start getting face to face again, Southern feeling more comfortable guests with a lot of narrative, they’re gonna start dumping properties on the market. And not only that, you’re gonna see institutional sellers start to dump properties on the market to you a lot of foreclosures have been put off not just foreclosures in the cosmetics, but foreclosures that would have happened anyway. A lot of those have been postponed now, because they’ve been moratoriums on that. So you can see those properties coming online. There are so many things that so many factors that are going to lead to more properties being brought on the market, that again, we don’t know how much we don’t know that it’s gonna flip. And I’m not I’m not saying I’ve got a crystal ball. But what I will say is this, if you’re prepared for it, you’ll be able to capitalize on it. And the way to prepare for it is to build your pipeline right now is to make your lead generation lead follow lead conversion calls is to get as many properties on the market as fast as you can right now. It’s about making sure that you’re in touch People and that when they are ready, you’re ready to take care of them. And then the rest will work itself out. But you’re going to have to develop new skill sets, you have to find new and more interesting and diverse ways to find leads to generate those leads to follow up with those leads. It’s not going to be like it was before. And let me rephrase. That’s not true. The basic principles are going to remain, the basic principles are true, right? Lead Generation, lead, follow lead conversion, three most important things you can do, how we do those things will continue to change. How we do lead generation will continue to evolve. You know, I mean, that, you know, 10 years ago, nobody would have thought to do a virtual listing presentation. Now it’s commonplace. A year from now. It’ll be unusual that people won’t offer that.

Brian Charlesworth 27:49
So I mean, we all know the 80/20 rule. And really, it’s 20% of the agents are doing 80% of business. Right, or 20% of the business owners are doing 80% of the business, right? And 80% of the agents are doing 20% of the business. So when I met you the first time I ever met you, we jumped on a, I don’t know what kind of conference it was, but you were sharing a spreadsheet with me that you guys have had in Club Wealth for some time now. And now you guys are rolling out Sisu? So share with us what, just what are some of the things people can do to make sure that they are on top of their business and running it like a business?

Michael Hellickson 28:38
First, you got to inspect what you expect, right? And so no matter what I do with my team, if I if I expect them to do X, Y and Z, I have to inspect that on a regular basis. Well, how am I going to do that in an efficient manner, the bigger you grow, the more difficult it becomes right? You know, the more people that are on your team, the more you have to systemize the process of inspecting what you expect. That’s where Sisu comes in. Right. And tht’s a phenomenal platform for that, obviously, where you can keep track of and you can visually visually look at at a glance what’s happening in your team, and very quickly identify where there’s problems that need to be addressed. And also be able to quickly identify who’s doing really well, where do I need to get kudos? Or do I need to, you know, to really give somebody a pat on the back, particularly in front of the rest of the team. Now, when knowing what to track is very important, I mean, you can get crazy with this and you can crack me up, you could spend all your time on tracking, which is exactly the opposite of the point with CT, right? We don’t want to spend all of our time on tracking need to track but we want to keep it as simple as possible so that we can just glance now is my business doing what it needs to do or is there a red flag somewhere that I need to go address? So that has to happen on a daily basis. So the first thing I would recommend is for those of you that have a team or a brokerage, I’d recommend a daily huddle every single day. We do it on our team Monday through Friday 738 is when we do ours, I would recommend you do yours early as well. it accomplishes a lot of things. It gets people up and dressed and ready for the day. So we do ours on zoom and vote for those that are remote. Those that are in person come into the office, obviously there will be again when the office is open. That said, I want to dress them ready for today. That’s one of our requirements. If you’re not dressing ready today, you’re not getting leads. Simple as that.

Brian Charlesworth 30:24
So for those of you who are listening and not watching, Michael is in his suit and tie. He always is dressed to a tee. And thankfully, he still talks to me when I’m dressed like this.

Michael Hellickson 30:40
But here’s the thing, it really just it depends on what your role is and how and how you work out. But I will say this for real estate team. What I have found is that there’s two things I found. And you spoke earlier too, and I’ll challenge this. You spoke earlier to a lot of companies that are saying oh our people are more efficient and more effective. Now. I don’t buy that. Now, I believe they’re saying that I don’t believe they knew that. Because I’ve seen the numbers, I’ve tracked them closely in our company. And I can tell you that the people that come to work to work in house are literally three times more productive than the people that work remotely from home and I love our folks in both. But I can say unequivocally that we see a three x increase in production when they come to the office and they work together in the office and they get that synergy. That said, I want them in a suit and tie because how you dress should not only strengthen your message, but it should also strengthen your self esteem. Right? So I want to know that I’ve got my suit of armor on like on my team and let me take if I’m an agent if I were going to real estate agents on my team and put free time if you’re going out somehow now are is a is do they have to wear a suit and tie now our inside sales agents do not but they have to dress professionally right? So we’re talking business casual as well. What we expect out of our ISA’s, and if they’re gonna wear a T shirt, it’s gonna say Club Wealth. Simple as that, like any club walk, the tire is always okay.

Brian Charlesworth 32:09
And let’s not forget that if there ISA they need to stand all day and not sit. Right?

Michael Hellickson 32:15
You’re 100% correct on that. So our ISA’s stand up, I’m standing right now I’m gonna stand up. So it literally I spent $46,000 in the office on standup desks, so they can their height adjustable desks. So when they’re dialing the phone, absolutely sit down, you bet you don’t take a load off. But it’s actually better for your body if you’re up and down, up and down versus up all the time or down all the time. And so that’s why at a push of a button, their desk will go up to their standing height or down to their sitting height. And they get that motion agent keep this in mind. This is an old school. I’m in a boiler room kind of guy. But you know, we’ve always said motion creates emotion. Yeah, it does. You know, when you’re moving around here, you get you get more emotion into it and you need to have that emotion to really convey your message properly to the person on the other phone.

Brian Charlesworth 33:04
Yeah. So I’m glad you said that. I really didn’t learn that until I went to Tony Robbins about six years ago. And I’ve been through all of his trainings now which which are amazing. But I’m, like, between, I’m on I’m in meetings, like every hour on the hour right now just meeting with people like you, which I love to do. Keeping my energy up is the most important thing I can do. So between every meeting, especially if my energies dropped a little bit, I just go over onto my little rebounder tramp and do you know a little jumping up and down from it, I can come back full of life and energy. Right. So the movement for those of you who haven’t tried that, try it because it works.

Michael Hellickson 33:51
Yeah, it really does just get whatever you got to do to get motion happening essentially because it changes your conversation on the phone to one of the things we Talk about what our team is matching and mirroring the importance of matching and marrying the person you’re talking about. So if I’m talking to somebody as high energy, I better be standing up because I gotta be high energy with them. I it’s very important that they’ll feel that they’ll send out on the phone. If I’m talking with someone who’s super low energy, I’m talking, and you know, the practice, right? They’re just really low energy, kind of talk like this. I will literally sit down, and I will literally put my feet up on the desk, if that’s what it takes to slow me down. And it does, and it will change, right? I know, there’s so many techniques that we can use to improve our sales skills. And they’re not hard to marry. They’re fun to practice, and they work and this one’s just super easy right hand up matching Mayer. And it’s funny because people say oh, but Michael, if I’m matching and marrying, what do I mean by matching bring I thought volley, pace, tone intonation, your inflection, the words the vocabulary that they use all of these things will match your body language on Zim match body language with all of these things when you’re matching marrying will help your client or your potential client your prospect if you will, to feel more comfortable with you. And what’s interesting is some people say But Michael Won’t they think I’m making fun of them? Won’t they want to be uncomfortable? Like if somebody has an accent and I start speaking with accent which I will do occasionally you know, if I’m talking to somebody from the south and they get start getting a bunch of y’all guess what’s going to come out of my mouth? Yeah, all right. I’m gonna be saying stuff like, y’all know, man. Yeah. And, and people think you know, all but Michael, they’re gonna think you’re making fun of them. Not at all. In fact, they’ll be more put off by you not doing it then they will if you do, because when you don’t do it, you are foreign to them. You are an outsider to them. When you do it. You’re natural for them and you and you feel like someone that they’re used to it. More, it’s more comfortable for them, if you will. Yeah. And so matching really, really does work. There’s so many other great techniques. That’s, by the way, a neuro linguistic programming technique.

Brian Charlesworth 36:12
So I wanted to shift gears for a minute. We don’t have a lot of time left, Michael. However, I wanted to make sure we hit you guys are really focused on profitability. I would say all of your coaches are profitability coaches. And, you know, with COVID-19, we seem to have experienced a lot more of this because people now care more than ever, how much they’re spending on lead sources, they care more than ever to know what their cost per closing is, what their cost per closing per agent is. And so we’ve seen, we’ve seen team owners go from, hey, I’m going to instead of giving you 50% on these types of leads, if you want me to keep buying These types of leads, you’re now going to be at 30%. And we’ve also seen them say instead of sharing these leads with everybody, I’m now only going to share it with my top three converters in those categories. So these are the kinds of things we’re seeing at CC, but I’d love for you to share just again in today’s environment. What are you guys talking about as far as profitability goes? Because I know you guys are really big on profitability coaching I’ve actually seen where people have said, I need to call my club wealth coach before I make that decision.

Michael Hellickson 37:33
Yeah, so we actually our clients, they’re not required to but they voluntarily agreed to to check with the coach before they spend more than $250 in the business so if it’s going to be more than $250 anyways, right so in a one year period, then they’ll check with their coach first and again. Let’s call it what it is as agents I think we all love the shiny objects, right? We all love you know, writing a check to get money coming in, you know, I just want to write a check and have a bigger Come in. Well, the reality is there’s a lot of stuff in between. And there’s an awful lot of checks we can write that aren’t checks we should write. Furthermore, when it comes to profitability, you guys, I’m speaking to the agents and the brokers out there and you guys have a responsibility to your clients to be profitable. Think about that for just a minute. Why would your client care if you’re popular or not? Because if you’re not profitable, guess what? You’re gonna be out of business. And you’re not able to serve anybody. It’s in so many People’s Elbow Michael, I just want to help people and I want to make sure I’m giving you the best seo I had I had a client not apply anymore. But I had a client that insisted on being a super discounted Commissioner. All I’m going to do is model and it’s in and I’m just going to I’m going to discount my commission because I think people way overpay for real estate agents, and what this person just could not get and they were successful. But they didn’t have a team. They weren’t it was just them all the time. And so they took a vacation, their business sitter vacation if they stop working for a day Their business stopped working for a day they were married to their phone, and our core value club up is that no success in the world can compensate for failure in the home. So what happens is, now you can run that model. But if you run that model, and you’re not profitable when you try and scale and hire people, so you can actually run the business, you’re gonna run yourself ragged, you’re gonna burn out is not gonna last long term. So you’ve got to balance How am I profitable? What How do I deliver a world class customer experience? But how do I make sure that my clients are getting great value along the way, and you can balance all those things. You just have to be cognizant of them, you have to be thinking hard about them. You have to look at different as simply as how often do you look at your profit and loss. And this is something most agents don’t even have a profit loss, but you know, some might have lost that non profit. But But how many of these agents and brokers that are watching today really have a full and complete profit and loss and they’re looking at it on a regular basis, I would suggest at a minimum once a month, you need to spend an afternoon going through profit loss. And just understand you don’t really know how to go through it. Just looking at where you spent your money will change how you feel about money and about expenses. And it will adjust naturally, how you spend money just go through and start highlighting things that look questionable to you. Should I really be buying that? Am I really getting value out of that, and you’ll start cutting back on things that maybe aren’t bringing you the kind of ROI that once was promised.

Brian Charlesworth 40:25
Yeah, thank thank you for sharing that. We’ve seen that with our most successful customers. Right now. They’re really utilizing Sisu to look at all their expenses and decide which ones should I keep doing. And so it’s really brought a whole new layer of value that I’ve seen.

Michael Hellickson 40:49
One of the great things about Sisu though and not to make this a commercial for Sisu but the fact that matter is, and truth be told, one of the things that it does really well is it helps you understand your ROI on particularly so Which a lot of agents struggle with, right? You need to understand how much did I spend on that? And what’s my conversion rate on that. The other thing that’s really interesting you guys can do this as well is, which of my team members, if I have a team and or brokers, if I’m handing out leads to multiple people, which of them are converting them at a higher level. And that matters, right? Because you’re going to have it by the way, you might have somebody to convert this type of lead into a really high level and they convert this low tech lead or very low level. That’s important to identify. So now I’m going to stop giving them the ones that convert at a low level and I’ll just give them the ones that convert Hello, perfect example is buyer agents versus listing agents and everybody loves to give me a hard time with this. Oh, but Michael, we’re the friendly team. Our agents work with buyers and sellers. Well, then you’re just a freakin moron. I’m sorry, that’s not I shouldn’t say that. But I will say this. There are teams that can function in that environment well, but let’s call what is I’ve never seen teams be more effective and more efficient than the teams that segment buyers and sellers. sellers and they have listing agents and they have buyer agents and the two are not the same person. Those teams that segment those have far greater success than the teams that try and have everybody doing everything the jack of all trades master of none. Right?

Brian Charlesworth 42:12
Yeah. So get it go a little deeper on that. Why do you think that is? Perfect?

Michael Hellickson 42:18
So a buyer right so let’s take Mr. Seller with us. Well, let’s say Brian Charlesworth wants to go out and sell his house and he wants to buy him as a seller… well let’s start by when he goes out and buys a house, what do you want you want somebody that’s gonna be patient with you that’s going to nurture you that’s going to guide you through the process educate you the whole way long, hold your hands and not pressure you as a seller. You want that person that’s going to kick down the front door punch in the face and make you sign you want a gnarly Pitbull with an attitude. You want somebody to take no prisoners and get you the most money can the least amount of time possible and you don’t care if you like him or not just get my freakin house sold and get me As much as you can as quickly as even as possible. Those are two different agents. They’re not even remotely the same agent. Can you guess which one I am, I would stuck at the buyer agent, right? Nobody would want to work with me as a listing agent. I’ve never met anybody that’s listed more homes. So, again, that doesn’t make me a bad agent. It just means I’m not a great buyer agent, matter buyer agents than me.

Brian Charlesworth 43:24
Right. And I think that falls into play with what you just said as far as even if you’re operating a team that does both know which agents convert the highest on which type of lead source. Make sure you’re getting the most bang for your buck.

Michael Hellickson 43:39
As a listing agent on my team, if typically even be considered to have an opportunity to try out as a listing IDs on my team, you have to convert 50% or more of your cold listing appointments, not referrals, but from cold sources, fizzbuzz expireds, cold calls, whatever anything other than you know, inbound leads, nothing But referral base stuff. Now to remain a listing, it’s not my team, you had to convert it 75% on cold appointments. Most people aren’t doing that the vast majority of agents out there are not converting at that level. If you’re a really great listing agent, you will in fact my listing agents got paid as a percentage of the commission right compares compared to the buyer agents, by buyer agents would make as much as 50%. My listing agents would make as much as 30%. And yet everybody wanted to be a listing agent on my team. Why don’t organize, they don’t work weekends, they slam appointments, that’s all they do is go from house to house, the house, they take listings, they grab that listing to hand it off to somebody else, and they never deal with it again, unless that person needs to be re closed. Who wouldn’t want that job? I know people on I know people on some agents teams that literally the listing agents make 10% and they still make a solid six figure income. Right. So it’s not about the percentage you make. Yeah, and that’s another thing. I think a lot of agents and brokers, they tend to get into this argument over what percent they make, like 100% of nothing, still nothing, right? could get worked up about the percentage, you can make a worry about how much money you make at the end of the year, for how many hours? What’s your dollars per hour? That’s really what matters at the end of the day. What do you make per hour work? That’s it.

Brian Charlesworth 45:20
Yeah. I think a lot of a lot of people on teams, agents on teams can understand that because I see, you know, there’s turn certainly people come onto a team for a couple of years. And then they might feel like, got this now I’m going to go off on my own. And when they do, what I usually see or have seen is that their production decreases dramatically. And at the end of the day, they actually have less money coming into their pocket.

Michael Hellickson 45:50
And they’re working twice as hard. I agree with everything you just said, and they’re working twice as hard. That’s the thing people have. They don’t realize it Everything, or too many people think that the benefits to a team are exclusively the benefits of the team leader. And then nothing could be further from the truth. everybody on the team benefits from the team. It’s like the farmer, right? farmers go out and let’s say I’m a wheat farmer, right? I’ve got all these wheat fields that I’m trying to grow and I’ve got, I’ve got to cultivate. Well to do so I need to combine and each combine is can be very expensive, right? The combine could cost a million dollars or more. I mean, these this is high technology nowadays. It’s not your grandfather’s grandfather’s old combine. So to be able to buy this combine a solo farmer usually can’t afford their own pipeline. So what do they do they get together with a bunch of other farmers, and they get together and they buy a combine together, they share the expense on that combine. So guess what? Now they can all take turns using it, they can afford it. That’s what a team does. That’s just the team right? You think about your team. You know somebody’s got about you know, we want to have an assistant that handles all the marketing you need assistant handles all the transactions Because we need people handling the lead generation, we need people going on to the buyer blaming people going on listing appointments, somebody’s got to run the whole thing. So we’ve got to make sure everybody’s doing what they’re supposed to be doing hold everybody accountable. And there’s a million other moving pieces along the way. So guess what, if I’m on a team, I get to leverage all of that, whether I’m the team leader or not. I get to if I’m on a team, I have an assistant, I don’t have to manage them. I don’t have to pay them. I just have to use them to the best of my ability to get to help me get done when I need to get done. And somebody else worries about the rest whose goals, mission vision values and their and their destiny is uniquely aligned with mine.

Brian Charlesworth 47:42
Yeah. Great. Michael, thank you for sharing. I know we have a hard stop. Is there any advice that you would like to give before we wrap up today?

Michael Hellickson 47:53
I’ll wrap it up with what I said in the very beginning. Start taking advice only from those people who have done more You want to or what you want to do as an example, in Club Golf, we’ve got over 70 coaches in football right now. Every single one of those coaches sell more real estate than the people that coach. If you’re if you’re doing 25 transactions a year, stop taking advice from people doing tan you’re doing 100 stop taking advice from people doing 50. If you want to do 500 deals, you start taking advice people that do 500 or 600 or 1000. Just make sure that you’re taking advice from people that know not that think they know but people that know how to get you where you want to go because they’ve already been there. That To sum it up, we say at Club wealth, that if you want to climb to the top of Mount Everest, you need a guy who’s been to the top of Mount Everest before.

Brian Charlesworth 48:42
I love it. Michael, thank you so much for your time, listeners, whether you’re watching or listening. We’re grateful to have you as a part of the show. This wouldn’t happen without you guys. So if you get a chance, go give us a rating. We’d love to have you share it with your friends, fellow people In the real estate world, and Michael, maybe you’ll be the first to be back on the third episode of the GRIT podcast.

Michael Hellickson 49:08
I would love to I’d be honored.

Brian Charlesworth 49:10
Thank you for joining us today.

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