Podcast

Episode 61 - GRIT The Real Estate Growth Mindset with Peter Chabris

Brian Charlesworth
March 16, 2021

Peter Chabris has been a licensed real estate agent since 2002. Six year later, he started The Chabris Group and since 2013, it has become Cincinnati's top sales team. The Chabris Group was also hailed as the top KW sales team in the Tri-State since 2015, and one of the top 100 sales teams at Keller Williams worldwide since 2019. 


Peter is a KW Mastery business coach for Keller Williams Realtors and Master Faculty for Keller Williams University as well. His specialties are systemizing customer experience, scaling business, sales skills mastery, and living an intentional life.


In this episode, we talked about:


(03:03) How did Peter’s team bridge the gap from 350 to 450 transactions last year

(04:35) What was their “big switch”?

(06:03) The importance of communication to the success of the team

(06:52) What are the key items to having the trajectory of growth continue through 2021 

(07:25) Teams vs. Brokerages

(09:29) What convinced them to bring in ISAs to the team

(10:37) The ISA model that works best for Peter’s team 

(15:16) How to get an agent transition into the role of an ISA

(17:07) Who should be the first person you hire

(18:02) The value of knowing your numbers

(20:07) How to Compensate Your Inside Sales Agent

(21:51) How do agent-ISA splits work

(26:12) The key to get to the next level




Episode Transcript:



Brian Charlesworth  0:35  

Happy to have you join us today,


Peter Chabris  0:36  

Thanks for having me, I appreciate it. This will be fun.


Brian Charlesworth  0:38  

I know you have a team. You're also a maps coach. A little bit more about that. Looks like you're you're probably at the 400 range right now going to 500.


Peter Chabris  0:47  

Yeah, we should we should cross the 400 line in pending and close, if not the end of this week, early next week. So we'll probably close between 415 and 425. This year, which is a big leap last year 450.


Brian Charlesworth  1:02  

Congratulations.


Peter Chabris  1:03  

Thanks. Appreciate that. Yeah.


Brian Charlesworth  1:05  

250 to 450. It sounds like


Peter Chabris  1:08  

God willing and the creek don't rise. Yeah. As long as it's hot market, which, by the way, everyone's an expert in everyone's a hero these days. So we're milking for what it's worth right now.


Brian Charlesworth  1:17  

Yeah. You and the rest of the hustlers, right.


Peter Chabris  1:19  

That's exactly right, make hay while the sun's up. Who knows what next year is gonna look like so?


It's doing all we can?


Brian Charlesworth  1:24  

Well, hopefully, what Greer shared with us is truth and that we're going to be up another, you know, 10 to 18%.


Peter Chabris  1:31  

Yeah, you know, it's possible. There's really no, the weirdest thing about all of this is it seems like we're there's like two parallel universes going on right now. Right. One is our reality, which is that our market segment seems to be going great. And all the people that buy and sell seem to be confident taking action. And there's this other parallel reality, which seems to run the face of all logic, which is we should be in a recession right now. We should be feeling it. And everything should be falling apart at the seams. And so I don't know when these two things reconcile they've got to eventually and and, you know, if you study real estate cycles, we're probably about due for it. And most people thought it was going to happen in 2020. And yet, it hasn't. So who knows, man, all bets are off. I personally haven't seen a pandemic before. Have you


Brian Charlesworth  2:14  

No, and, you know, if you look at the real estate cycles, I believe the normal real estate cycle is about eight years, six to eight years


Peter Chabris  2:23  

10 years. That's exactly right. 


Brian Charlesworth  2:24  

And so that being said, I mean, we're way overdue. 


Peter Chabris  2:29  

We're way overdue


Brian Charlesworth  2:30  

We were 2008. So,


Peter Chabris  2:32  

Yeah, the recovery of the recovery from 20 from 2008. Was slugger sluggers slower and longer. Yeah, and then all the previous recoveries. So it makes sense from that perspective that it should we should have a couple more good years and of course, interest rates are retarded. So how much time are we buying from the future right now? And it's just to cram in deals today with this artificially low interest rate?


Brian Charlesworth  2:55  

Yeah, interest rates are absolutely helping in driving this forward. So 


Peter Chabris  3:01  

No doubt. 


Brian Charlesworth  3:01  

Well, good. Well, I'd love to have you kick us off and share with us what you've done to really bridge that gap. And I would say, bridging the gap not only from 400 to 500. That's what you're going to do next year. But I mean, how have you done it this year? That's huge growth from 250 to 450.


Peter Chabris  3:18  

Well, 350. 350 to 450. 


Brian Charlesworth  3:20  

Okay, 


Peter Chabris  3:21  

Like, I can't take credit for that. You know, it, I think when you when you have a big jump like that, so what is that 350 450, that's 125. It's just shy of, it's just shy of 30%. growth, right? That doesn't happen. Because we started the year deciding it was going to happen. That's the consequence. That's the result of decisions that were made two years ago, that are finally showing up in our business model. And one of the big ones, there's a couple things that we did differently. The big one was two years ago, I made a kind of a mindset leap, and decided to decentralize how our business was run. And when I say that, what I mean is, I removed myself from the center of everything. Up until that point, I had been a bottleneck of authority, and a bottleneck of opportunity. And there are some great things about that one, it's a little bit more of a profitable model to you're in total control, or you're in a much larger amount of control. But there are also some real limitations. Unfortunately, all of us have our own limitations. And as long as you are trying to maintain absolute control or a high level of control, the organization can never grow a business bigger than you can. Because all of us are human. We all have our capacity. And so the big switch, the big switch that was flipped two years ago was choosing to decentralize leadership, decentralized opportunity, and allow for more fluidity and how agents go about hitting their numbers. behaviorally, I'm a high D high C and so I had everything dialed in exactly the way I knew it could be done to be successful, and yet Different people have different strengths. And so part of it for me was also letting them play to their strengths and creating more of a, of scaffolding of success strategies and best practices than an absolute this way or the highway and that that, for me was a huge leap of faith and required extreme circumstances to trigger it. But it's been great. And, you know, again, everybody's a genius right now. So Time will tell if that was a good move or not. But for the time being, we're enjoying it. 


Brian Charlesworth  5:31  

Well, congratulations on it sounds like you were basically letting go. And I mean, people have different strains, people also have different goals, also different wants and to try to fit them into yours. That's right, it can be fitting a square peg into a round hole and impossible. So I think it's important that we're supporting them in, as you said, you know, letting them do what they want to do supporting them in, in their growth in their life and their goal.


Peter Chabris  6:01  

Yeah, I think that's right, I think that you have to have a vision of what you want the culture of the office to be like, and that needs to be something that you can communicate. And you have to know what the expectation, you have to clearly communicate what the expectations are for each person's role, and how that success is measured. And provide the resources for individuals to hit those metrics of success, and use those resources and get there. As long as it's ethical, and in line with your organization's culture, do it the way that they're going to do which is playing to their strengths. And that really requires overhauling a lot of our systems, the majority of our script book, and for me to take a lot of deep breaths. So 


Brian Charlesworth  6:44  

Yeah, That sounds like a major decision, major change in your business. 


Peter Chabris  6:49  

Yeah. 


Brian Charlesworth  6:50  

And now you got to keep that going. So what do you see as the key items for having that trajectory continue through 2021? And that kind of growth? It looks to me like I mean, is ISA team. Is that something new to you? 


Peter Chabris  7:06  

It is it is new to us, and I was facilitating a panel. We've got agents from all different brokerages on this, right? 


Brian Charlesworth  7:15  

We do. Yes. Yeah. From from all over. I mean, yeah.


Peter Chabris  7:18  

So I was facilitating a panel at one of the Keller Williams annual conventions, digitally. And it was a conversation about what it means to be a team and what it means to be a brokerage, and how a lot of teams are looking a lot more like brokerages where the value is, is in training, right and leadership. And that's ultimately what brokerages do so unless teams are gonna get really big and give up more commissions than they really probably should stop pursuing that brokerage model. And yet all of us want to pursue scale. So how do we most teams start when they're small, where there's traditionally there's some sort of large producer like your so called mega agent or Rainmaker or whatever you want to call that individual, and they create more opportunities that they can serve. And so they start to scale through people, right, they start to leverage through people. And that's how the traditional team model happened. Yes. And then I think technology in the early 2000s, kind of created this opportunity for scale before the an individual with enough drive enough ego could put together a real estate sales machine, using instruments of scale, like Internet lead generation internet leads, and radio and other large media to create a machine without actually having generated the opportunities out of his or her own personal experience, and sphere and database. And I think that quickly bled into Well, let's just stack a lot of bodies will look like a brokerage charge, higher splits, and we'll deal with the churn and there'll be a great business model there, unfortunately, not great for the agents that participate in that model. And so I think for us, if we want to go from 400 to 500, if we start pursuing the stalking bodies model anymore, that's not healthy, long term. And that's not the business we're in. We're not in the brokerage business. The team business is one where the team is creating opportunities for the agents that choose to align their careers and their income with the team. And yes, it's culture. And yes, it's training and leadership and vision, all those things, but part of it is the creation and cultivation and transfer of leads for the agents that choose to align themselves with the team, right? The value proposition of the split for a team has got to be a lot bigger than the value proposition of the split for the brokerage. So the choice to do to finally try this whole ISA thing number one, I'm pretty conservative financially. And so I wanted people to figure out the model. And that took a couple of years I think, but I think now the model is kind of there's enough ratios for success that we can point at things and do some research and say okay, this is what we want our thing to look like. The second is, it enables us to at scale, we can now start converting leads at a higher level by investing in some Salar with some talented, specialized people and it enables us to make maintain our value position of creating, and cultivating and transferring leads for our agents at scale, which up until this time, we'd be able to do without individuals focused on that exclusively. Now, that was a long-winded answer. And I apologize. 


Brian Charlesworth  10:13  

No, that's great. So with the size of your team today, you're talking about the difference between a large team in a brokerage, how many agents you guys have today?


Peter Chabris  10:20  

Yeah, so I wouldn't, I would say we're medium-sized team. There are people out here, they're beasts that have like 50 agents on their team, and I think they're badass. For us. We have 12 active agents.


Brian Charlesworth  10:31  

Okay. So you have 12 active agents, super high production for 12. active agents. So tell me more about I mean, you say the ISA model has been proven out, but I still see every I still see 12 different versions of it out there. What after your research, because there's probably a lot of people listening right now interested in


Peter Chabris  10:54  

Trying this out?


Brian Charlesworth  10:55  

Trying out the ISA team? What did your research tell you? What's the note of that, that row that you're going down to do that?


Peter Chabris  11:04  

I thought you might ask that, so I pulled up some of our research. Okay. dial the contact 12%. And some of this, by the way, I don't want to take credit for all this. This is a lot of this is driven from an I'm not promoting here, a lot of this is driven from the kW program around how to hire and train and develop ISA teams. So it's from that as well as it is from kind of like qualitative conversations with peers that are further down this road than we are. So I don't want to take credit for any of this. And I want to make sure I'm giving credit where it's due. So the big one that we're interested in is okay, what is the contact to appointment set ratio? The big ratio that I think is important, there's a couple ratios, the one that we were most interested in, when we were kind of building a business model or business case for this is, what's the contact to appointment booked ratio? That's the first one, right? And research shows it's around 5%. And then the next one is okay, what appointments set to appointment held ratio, and we've seen that go anywhere from 60% to 80%, based on the based on the team.


Brian Charlesworth  12:13  

So your team numbers are 5% for the first


Peter Chabris  12:17  

What we found is the industry average when we talk to people is about 5%, contact to appointment booked and then any anywhere from four to 6%. And then anywhere from 60 to 80%. Appointment booked to appointment kept


Brian Charlesworth  12:28  

And what about on your team? What are those numbers?


Peter Chabris  12:31  

So yeah, so just to be clear, we are just trim it 


Brian Charlesworth  12:35  

ISA model. So you don't know that for ISA Do you know that for your marketing? 


Peter Chabris  12:38  

Yeah, absolutely. For our sales team, traditionally, were 4% appointment contacts to, to appointment booked. So 25 contacts per agent yields a booked appointment, are kept is usually about 80% are kept to take in whether it's a listing agreement, or a buyer agreement is around 80 to 85%. I look, let me be conservative 80%. And then it shakes out from there.


Brian Charlesworth  13:02  

Okay, those are great numbers and congratulations on knowing those. 


Peter Chabris  13:06  

Well, thank you. 


Brian Charlesworth  13:07  

So let's get you down the ISA numbers that have


Peter Chabris  13:10  

Yeah, the way I explain this to people on the sales team is when you think about a real estate agent, when the average consumer thinks about a real estate agent, they think about million dollar listing, and they think about the glory. And they think about the service component when you're out there with your clients looking for homes and the thrill of negotiating and all that stuff. And that is fun. And that's what people are ultimately most people are attracted to the industry about is that service component. But prior to the service component, there's the sales component, which is finding, cultivating, converting the leads so that you have the opportunity to serve, right. And so,


Brian Charlesworth  13:44  

Which really is the number one thing if you want to be in real estate like that is your primary right there, right? If you are if you're really going to build a business


Peter Chabris  13:52  

At the closing table, and the service is great. But if you don't have people to do that with then it's not much of a business. So the way I explained to people when we're talking to them about if they're more interested in the ISA role in the organization or the traditional real estate agent role in the organization is which they find themselves drawn more towards the service center the sales. And so if we're decoupling these two things, that's our experiment. And we didn't flip the switch, we've got these, we have these systems running in, in tandem in parallel so that we can evaluate this over a period of time.


Brian Charlesworth  14:23  

So when you have these running tandem in parallel, how many ISA's do you have right now?


Peter Chabris  14:28  

Right. So we get press one started with two, and as they say in the military, one is none two is one, and I would say three is better. So we started with two, we're down to one. The one that we have was an agent with our team for three or four years. She used to run a 24 seven call center and had 300 phone reps that were she was responsible for about 20% of those representatives activity was outbound. The rest was inbound phone calls. And she was one of our best converters of internet leads. So prior to stepping to the She's kind of leading. And what we've found, which I find very encouraging is her contact to appointment booked ratio for the first three weeks that she's been in this role is 5%. And she's still building up her pipeline. So that's, I think, pretty encouraging.


Sisu  15:16  

Yeah, just out of curiosity, I mean, you've done a lot of research. It's obvious. I've spoken with a tremendous amount of team owners and heard many, many different ways to structure compensation. I'd like you to get into that. Because how do you get somebody to go from an agent to an ISA and Roland and to be satisfied and happy and know they're going to make the money they want, because obviously, she came from that. So she's happy there. But she needs to be confident she's going to make the money to stay there, right?


Peter Chabris  15:54  

Yes, absolutely. Everybody has a money box that has to be checked. And once that box is checked, my personal experience is that it's not about the money after that, you know, things like quality of life and work-life balance, and accessibility and availability to your children and stress levels. And all of that stuff, nights and weekends. Like, we all have different value systems and different priorities and how we choose our career path. I don't have the right to project my career value system onto anybody else. And so I'm presenting opportunities to people. And they can tell me if those opportunities correspond with what they value in their career path,


You know, and Chris, who is who's the woman that starting this, she loves building, and her favorite career. The favorite part of her career was when she was running this call center. And she loves to build things and she loves loves loves being the engine room being the tip of the spear. And she's very proud of it. And she's good at it. And, and so, we were lucky that we found a talented person and to start this.


Brian Charlesworth  17:04  

Yeah, she sounds like the right player.


Peter Chabris  17:06  

The right first place. The other thing that we've learned in our research is, the first person you hire is not an ISA, the first person that you hire is somebody that has some sort of telephone based sales and service background that understands the metrics that understands the mindset and just needs to be taught real estate. We were lucky enough to find somebody that does that does both. And we were in relationship. These guys don't know I'm on a zoom right now. I guys, sorry. Were you present these days? Right?


Brian Charlesworth  17:36  

Like how big zoom is we're not even on a zoom. But it's just considered zoom. 


Peter Chabris  17:41  

Thanks for correcting me? Sorry. Streamyard.


Brian Charlesworth  17:44  

Yeah. No, no, it's just I mean, let's talk about the right place the right time. Look at zoom.


Peter Chabris  17:50  

Yeah. And tissue like and Kleenex. tissue paper, right. 


Brian Charlesworth  17:53  

Yeah. So you now have for tracking? Yeah, exactly. And it is, it is a good time, because I think pretty soon, like people have realized that in order to really take their business to the next level. And to be able to make smart decisions, they really need to know these numbers, like you just walked through all of your conversion ratios along the way, if you didn't know those, 


Peter Chabris  18:17  

You can't make a business decision, you really can't, you don't have a business you've got, you've got a job or you've or you are, if you don't know your metrics, you don't run a business, and you are going to find that you are going to be a victim of whatever is happening in the market. And if you don't, if you can't identify trends, when you know your numbers, you're going to identify trends and be able to react before the market does. 


Brian Charlesworth  18:17  

Yeah


Peter Chabris  18:17  

that can make or break a year it can make or break one. So if you're leading a team, or a brokerage, or whatever, whomever the user is a Sisu, presumably they are a leader within that organization, if you're not using the metrics, to understand the market of the moment, stay a step ahead of it. Your job as a leader, as custodian, and custodian is advocate for the careers of the people that get in business with you. It's your responsibility to know your numbers so that you can protect them and help guide them and lead them in the right direction when there are shifts in the market. And you can't do that if you don't have your pulse on the market. And the way you post on the market is you watch the media and you watch your numbers.


Brian Charlesworth  19:18  

Yeah, well said. Now, here you are. You're down this road, you're going from 400 to 450. Looks like you're going to add 100 transactions this year. Wherever you end up. You want to add another 120 21. Yeah, you're down this road with the ISA Your goal is to get to three, you're now at one is that kind of where you're at?


Peter Chabris  19:38  

Yeah, that's exactly right. Yes, is the short answer.


Brian Charlesworth  19:42  

Okay. So in order to get to three, it sounds like you're making some very smart decisions and just proving this out along the way and figuring out what's working, what's not. And when do you bump that up three. And when you do does your current ISA step into a leadership role?


Peter Chabris  19:57  

Yes, she will be the consummate player-coach 


Brian Charlesworth  20:00  

Yes


Peter Chabris  20:01  

She's paid a higher base salary and an override on their production.


Brian Charlesworth  20:05  

Okay. Do you mind talking about compensation for a minute? Because I think that's where people struggle. It's like, okay, am I gonna have to pay a $50,000 salary? Now? Where do I come up with that? 


Peter Chabris  20:17  

Yeah,


Brian Charlesworth  20:17  

How deep? Do I have to dive into my Commission's or into the agents Commission's? 


Peter Chabris  20:21  

Yeah


Brian Charlesworth  20:22  

So you've done a tremendous amount of research in this. So I'd love to hear how you've decided this is how I'm going about this?


Peter Chabris  20:29  

Well, I'm probably the wrong guy to interview because we're getting started. And there's some beasts on this on this program you guys have put together, which by the way is really impressive. Who are way further down the path? And can probably answer this from their experience. What we've learned without actually being in the trenches for very long is, obviously there's a base and best practices that the bonused component of the compensation is only on closed business. It's not on booked appointments or counting appointment, you're taking notes on closed business. 


Brian Charlesworth  20:57  

Yes, I think that's that is one of the most important points that everybody has said, Everybody I've ever talked to that successfully done this has said, and the reason that's so important is because at that point, you have your ISA booking appointments, and their interest is in line with the agents, the appointments, they're booking their goal is to get a closing from that their goal is to just send somebody on a crappy appointment.


Peter Chabris  21:23  

That's right. They want qualified motivated buyers and sellers investors. 


Brian Charlesworth  21:27  

Yeah. So thank you for bringing that up. I think that's a super important point. 


Peter Chabris  21:31  

Yeah, that was loud and clear when we were doing our research. So sorry, it's a base salary. It is an override on the GCI from the close transaction. We pay for health insurance. For individuals, we have a group health insurance plan on our sales team and the ability to participate a 401k after 90 days on the job.


Brian Charlesworth  21:49  

Okay, so do you mind talking about splits of what, what your team's splits are today? And how that percentage that is going to be coming from the team? Is that coming from the agents or so?


Peter Chabris  22:03  

Yeah, talking about agent splits in a vacuum is useless because we don't know what services I am or I'm not providing to have any kind of perspective on whether that's a fair split or whether that's one to copy or to implement, or make your own value decision on your split structure. However, what I do think is a good conversation is yes, the agents pay for the ISA to identify, cultivate and convert and schedule that lead. 


Brian Charlesworth  22:32  

Okay. 


Peter Chabris  22:33  

And so the way we do that is their splits are adjusted down 10%. 


Brian Charlesworth  22:39  

Okay, so I just want to clarify this, because I think this is really important. And I think that's a great way of doing it. But what you're saying is you're paying their base salary, you are allowing them onto your benefits plan, which is a tremendous value in itself. 


Peter Chabris  22:53  

Yes. 


Brian Charlesworth  22:53  

And then the agents are getting 10% less out of their commission. It's not coming out of the gross GCI. It's actually coming off the agents split, whatever that is, is that correct? 10% of the agent or is it?


Peter Chabris  23:07  

Great question. If it's a 50/50 split just for simplicity's sake. Yes. If they are closing a transaction that was qualified and booked by the ISA, they will keep 40 I will keep 60 Okay. 


Brian Charlesworth  23:22  

Okay, perfect. That's what I thought. Yeah, 


Peter Chabris  23:24  

Just the easiest way to explain it. Yes. So the ISA. The next question is what is the is a get paid? The ISA is getting paid 5% override on the transaction?


Brian Charlesworth  23:36  

Okay, so I think based on that, it's important for people to understand your average your average transaction,


Peter Chabris  23:43  

Our average sales price is about 244,000. Okay, let's say 240. Okay, easy. $250,000. 


Brian Charlesworth  23:51  

Okay, So average sales price. 250. We had somebody in here, Kyle Whissel yesterday, he was basically running the same model you just talked about. So there's two of you that are doing this very, very similar. However, he was paying five what 


Peter Chabris  24:06  

I want to talk to him. 


Brian Charlesworth  24:07  

That's Kyle Whissel. Yeah, you may want to talk to Kyle, Kyle's average purchase price is 600. And something 1000. He's in San Diego. So one of the things he suggested is if you have a lower purchase price, you may need to go up to 10%. In order to get that ISA over 100 the magical $100,000 


Peter Chabris  24:30  

Yeah that six figure,okay? Yes, yes, yes, yes, that's all correct. But he's projecting a $600,000 standard for somebody that lives in what did you say it was? 


Brian Charlesworth  24:41  

San Diego


Peter Chabris  24:41  

San Diego, the cost of living in Cincinnati is probably two-thirds or less of what it is in San Diego. So, you know.


Brian Charlesworth  24:48  

So your target I get that's a great point and your target, maybe 


Peter Chabris  24:53  

65 to 85. 


Brian Charlesworth  24:54  

Yeah, okay. Okay, perfect. That's what I was trying to get to.


Peter Chabris  24:57  

Yeah, it's 65 to 85. By the way, if you're working five days a week, eight hours, maybe it's nine, or maybe it's six days a week for seven hours, whatever that winds up being. And you're in the real estate business and you're not working nights or weekends, and you've got health insurance, you have the ability to participate in a 401k. And we also provide additional investment opportunities for our people. Like that's a pretty good gig. Especially if you have younger kids, which is part of what one of Chris's motivators was that she wanted to be home. On the nights and the weekends while her kids are teenagers. Welcome. every teenager right now is going through the hardest time with social media and all the additional pressures and Coronavirus and all this crap like they need their mom there and for her was a no brainer.


Brian Charlesworth  25:42  

Yeah. The one thing I love about you is everything is well thought out well structured, and you come about it with a tremendous amount of confidence. It's like, Yeah, well living in San Diego, you're going to need $100,000 living in Cincinnati is a Cincinnati.


Peter Chabris  25:59  

Yep. Cincinnati.


Brian Charlesworth  25:59  

Yeah, in Cincinnati. 65 85,000 is great pay. I think that's true. So yeah, any last thoughts? Because we're running out of time. Any last thoughts around? What is going to be key for you guys getting to the next level next year.


Peter Chabris  26:17  

So my normal speed is pedal down, always. And I might be maturing a little bit as I lose my hair here. Because we're doing this incrementally. For the first time ever, I'm not jumping in feet first and figuring it out as we go where we are. We're experimenting. And we are we've increased our Oh, that's the thing. You asked me about dollars and budget. I think to do this right? You have to have the savings to pay for at least one ISA probably two because two will do better learn better perform better if they start at the same time because of just friendly competition and having a buddy, 


Brian Charlesworth  26:52  

Yes. 


Peter Chabris  26:54  

You probably need to be able to pay for ISA salary and whatever benefits plus the lead gen budget increase for both of them to be successful for at least for excuse me, least five, probably six months before you can decide whether or not it was successful. And if you can't do that, you're cheating yourself. You're cheating them and you're cheating your agents.


Brian Charlesworth  27:13  

Yeah, great point. So if you're thinking about going down that road plan for at least that I would totally agree with that. Yeah. Okay. Well, it's been great getting to know you.


Peter Chabris  27:24  

Thank you. 


Brian Charlesworth  27:25  

Peter, thank


you so much for joining us today. And congratulations on all of your success. 


Peter Chabris  27:30  

You guys, congratulations on your product. Congratulations on pulling off this like marathon of killer content. Well done strong.


Brian Charlesworth  27:37  

Yeah. Thank you so much. And yeah. Now for me, the goal would be it's I love talking to maps coaches, because that's an area where we would love to break in and get a lot more of your customers obviously on see Sisu, so. But anyway, thank you. It's been great love chatting with you today and best of luck over the next year.


Peter Chabris  27:56  

Thanks, man. Good luck, everybody. Thank you. 


Brian Charlesworth  27:58  

We'll see you.


Transcribed by https://otter.ai




About the Author

Brian Charlesworth
Chairman and CEO

Brian is an entrepreneur and business builder. He has built and sold companies in the software, telecommunications, and franchise space. He’s passionate about technology and focused on changing lives through driving technology forward.