Robby Trefethren, Coach and Lead Geek, Hatch Coaching - Why Everything You Know About Lead Conversion is Changing in 2021

Zac Muir
October 8, 2020

[00:00:00] All right, guys, we're back on. I had to break out the standing desk for this one. I'm really excited, as I'm sure a lot of you are, to have Robbie on. We're going to bring him on here in a sec. Robbie, what's up there?

[00:00:14] And he caught me cleaning my glasses and I started doing this one for Robbie there in the comments. Please just stand the comments for coming on, man. I don't know if you know this. Did you watch Mike Novac session yesterday?

[00:00:31] I have. Not yet. No, I'm not at your summit, though. Right. What he will talk about. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:00:37] If you guys haven't watched Mike's session about the showing partner model, it was an absolute just.

[00:00:48] And everyone else to leave the mike is I always jokingly say that is my bodyguard, but Mike is one of the he's like the toughest guy in the world that has the gentlest heart and cares and loves for people I love. This is one of the best people out there. So I'll be in a sandbox.

[00:01:06] And you guys that hatch have gotten a lot a lot of love at this summit. You guys are doing some awesome things. And I'm really excited to have you on here where we talk about Legenda Day, right?

[00:01:19] Yes. Lee conversion. I jokingly tell people I'm a lead geek and it's I mean, who else starts a session off by cleaning the glasses besides a nerd?

[00:01:32] Yeah, we got the certified lead geek on here. Right.

[00:01:37] Well, did you give us a little background on you?

[00:01:40] I mean, I know what I think I say. I think people who know about ISIS, people who know about converting leads, people who have probably converted and been rejected by more religious than anybody out there.

[00:01:53] I think you guys. So maybe give us some background on them.

[00:01:57] Yeah, man. So I always talk about how my sales journey began. Actually didn't start in real estate. It started when I was working on, out of all things, a political campaign. And if I can promise all of your listeners, one simple truth is that if there's one thing that's less popular than a sales person, it's somebody working in politics. I guarantee it because I did work something called feel that I'm not going to tell you political parties, especially in the climate we're in these days. But there was one really interesting fact. All right. And it's one piece of value that I hope you all can take away. And it's simply this.

[00:02:36] When I first got into that, when I was doorknocking for different candidates that I was working for and I supported, they literally gave me a script. Right. Just like we do in real say. They said, hey, say these things, you're going to convert voters. That's literally what they said. And in real estate, they say, hey, so you use three or four things and you'll you'll convert business. And what I found was when I went up to people's doorsteps. Right. And I told people that were of the middle or the opposing party that they should be voting for a candidate. How do you think this conversation is? One sack with a lot of fun you can imagine. I was called every word in the book. Long story short, I learned one simple truth. It said if I wanted to influence somebody, I first had to find out what's already influence them. So really, I switched it. I took everything they were telling me to say and I threw it out the window. And I and I'll tell you how this relates to real estate in a minute. Instead of going up to somebody and saying, hey, Zach, I'm with black and black political party, here's why you should support my candidate and then get literally booed off the doorstep like me. I said, Hey, Zach, I'm here with blank and blank political party. I had to say that legally. And man, I just came out today because I wanted to know what matters to you this election.

[00:03:49] And here's what's funny, Zach. People wouldn't stop talking. They would talk and talk and talk.

[00:03:56] So when I got into real estate, I love political campaigns for a variety of reasons, primarily the fact that you literally become unemployed every year after a campaign is done. Right. And we were expecting our first child. And I was lucky enough that one of the candidates that I helped get elect elected was working with Aakash, who obviously owns the Aakash team. And I was not a polished individual. I was not good at speaking. I lacked really any form of confidence. But I had one skill going for me, Zach, and it's simply that I knew how to ask questions and actually listen. You see, the best script in the book, in my eyes is simply tell me more.

[00:04:39] It's allowing somebody else to keep going and going deeper into what they're saying. And there's a lot of people to talk about this. Right. Again, seek first to understand, then to be understood was the great Steven Covey. It was Tony Robbins. I said, if you want to influence somebody, you got to find out it's already influencing them. So for us, my script, when I got into real estate, people were like, just call them and tell them what your team's the best or follow these these scripts, these interest rate scripts or whatever it was, it's all the same jump. And I would call and say, hey, Zach saw that you were looking at some homes on my site. And man, I wanted to know where you just kind of looking for fun or you think about potentially making a move in the near future.

[00:05:17] And guess what? People would talk and talk and talk.

[00:05:22] And even if you told me you were just looking for fun or you're like, now I'm and I'm not really interested, I'd say, OK, so you're just kind of looking for fun. But what had you curious about real estate? And guess what they would say? A lot of times, Zach, I'm thinking about buying a home in a year or two. So it's just that's my background.

[00:05:39] I was and I say boots on the ground. The numbers I like to give is I made one hundred thousand calls and about two years, give or take. This is back when calls, calls, calls was everything to convert leads at a high level and about to deliver. Some interesting news to you all here in a little bit about how the conversion is changing. But I made one hundred thousand calls for the ten thousand people, said about a thousand appointments, and that led to over four hundred closed transactions and about two and a half years. And now since then, I get a coach and find a lot of the top converting teams in the country, whether it's icey teams or agents. And we've created really cool stuff that helps people convert leads at a really high level. So that's one round. And again, as you can tell, I get very excited about the conversion.

[00:06:25] So some have some great content. Can you remind me the website psychotropics here in the comments?

[00:06:31] Yeah, there's a couple of things. We want some free stuff. Go to hash, coaching dotcom and literally hash coaching like an egg hatch. And so coaching dotcom. And literally the top banner is going to be free league conversion training, where I give you five of the lessons that I teach all my clients on how to convert leads. Go check it out. Sign up doesn't cost anything, obviously, to be very transparent. I hope that you maybe check out our ultimate godly conversion, but you'll like that. I think also on that page, another cool thing we did was we created convert with my ISA's and convert is like the Netflix only conversion. There's content we put in there on how to convert leads about marrying and matching all that good stuff. And that's right on that half coaching page as well. And again, that is convert the Netflix conversion, hopefully over that.

[00:07:23] So so let's dig into this a little bit. Robby, you say lead conversion is changing or where do we even start?

[00:07:30] Oh, my gosh, man. So let's start here. Let's go back to when I was in.

[00:07:36] I said the reality is, is that the reason I say is I always people always ask, well, I've had ISA's and it hasn't worked. Right. And I think it's because people's definitions of ISA's is really antiquated in my world. You don't need to know if you hear me talking about ISA's, they are the lead managers. This is not the low man on the totem pole or a woman on the totem pole. These are these are the leaders in my business that are the lead conversion ninja. So let's first get that out there that most people were looking to hire somebody for fifteen dollars an hour and pay them nothing. And they were expecting those people to convert leads and call them ISA's. That is not my definition of an essay. Right. Not even close. But let's talk about this. The old school way of converting leads.

[00:08:22] Honestly, in our world, the way we created a competitive advantage was simply we did something most agents didn't either have the time or the awareness or the systems to do. Any guesses what it was, Zach? Following up, yeah, it's Wimple, and here's what was so unique is the ISA's, frankly, it was just a full time job that when I spoke to somebody, they actually called six months later, nine months later, 12 months later, unlike maybe agents and again, some people, the agents fault, I don't blame agents.

[00:08:58] They're already wearing 18 different hats. You're expecting them to balance converting deals and working deals and servicing their clients.

[00:09:06] And the reality is, if you're a great agent, what happens is you're really great at generating. So you build a pipeline, right. And then what happens? You get busy, you get busy servicing that pipeline and then guess what happens, your generation. And then it's the ebb and flow that we all go through. And we're like, OK, well, this is silly, right? We're always somebody is trying to solve problems. And that's why we created the Irsay Department in our world, was to bring consistency to the follow up game. Now, there's three things that I want everybody here to write down. All right? It's the three core things that lead to lead conversion. All right? It's very, very simple. It's almost always these are the three KPIs I measure. And I figure if I see a really low converting team, one of these KPIs is trash every single time. So no one is going to shock you, not speed to lean. Right. It used to be everything. There's a ton of tons of studies that will show you that you've got to get there within five minutes or else your conversion falls off a cliff. So speed delete is number one. And we're going to go back into these in a little bit. Number two is speed to response. All right. Speed the response and we'll come back to the second.

[00:10:15] And that number three is speed to service. All right, speed. It's very, very self evident. Lead comes in. How quickly are you getting into it? All right, here's the thing that's going to happen, Zach. It's going to catch a lot of your people here off guard is my prediction is in a year or two, speed to lead won't matter at all. Zero. Here's why. We and really great teams guess what they're doing with their speed to lead. They're automating it, yeah, they're automating it through texting. Well, if everybody starts automating it, my friend, guess what? There's no competitive advantage anymore. When everybody starts automating, we're all the same level playing field speed, the lead becomes the same thing. Well, except for the dinosaurs that are going to leave the industry. But that writing's been on the wall for a minute. Right. But speed delete isn't going to matter much because everyone's going to be going to be getting there within five minutes. That will be just a given. What will matter. Those is speed to response. All right. And speed of response really means this is that if you're automating your first attempt and obviously in this day and age, this is a big shift that people need to wake up to, is that we are seeing the death, literally the death of the phone call in front of us.

[00:11:31] We have seen cancer rates dwindle and dwindle and dwindle, especially from a random phone number, especially in a political climate like this, especially when people get spam calls that annoy the living heck out of the best picture ever. As my iPhone lets me just if I don't have your number, my phone, I go straight to voice, great to voicemail that I've been telling people this is coming and people were laughing at me. The reality is, is that the old school model of calling leads is becoming something that at a bare minimum, less effective. And I'll give you some numbers here in a little bit. But I want to finish the speed of lead speed of response. So now that we're automating it, obviously, if I want to the question I always ask people, because we get stuck in business, we get stuck in a business mindset, not in the consumer mindset. And there's one rule you should always doing anything you're doing is stop thinking like a real estate agent. Good. Dang it, stop it. Start thinking like the school teacher who's busy with kids at home. Start thinking like that school counselor who's coming home or that nurse start thinking like that because that matters far more.

[00:12:39] And the reality is, is they're so sick of this thing, calling them with a random phone number. If I wanted to reach any of you. Which one of you would all prefer a random phone call from a random phone number compared to a random text? Everybody would prefer a random tax, and we know this intuitively, but so many people are resistant to it because but that's not what we've been doing for a while. And you need to be ready to shift because the change is already coming. It's here. People are answering the phone less and less, and we're contacting more leads via text than ever before. And if I had to guess and I'll give you some numbers a little bit again, I'll save it for the end. If I had to guess. We're going to see some cataclysmic changes that are going to really change how this game works. But anyway, speedy response really, really means this is that one to lead. Text you back, Zach. How long is that response sitting there going on responded to that is going to really matter. That's going to be the new speed to lead, but it's going to be speed response. So I want to lead a response to your automated campaign. Here's what you need, Zach.

[00:13:45] What do you think? They're going to respond? Whatever they want, right, think about it, Zach, what does a league come in, what are they going to respond to a text whenever they open it, whenever they want to.

[00:13:57] And what it's going to do is it's fracturing the work you have to do and reconversion even further and a little bite sized pieces you're doing all day long. You're texting people. Mike has shared this, my eyes has to share this, we're not calling leads at even a fraction of what we used to be doing, yet we're all converting at higher levels than we were a year ago. And really what it comes down to is we've automated so much that we're engaged in texting conversations with leaders all the time. The big metric I used to look at was speed to lead. And how many new leads have not done anything with. How many times have you called them that used to matter. Now you know what matters the most when you automate things? How many unanswered messages are sitting in your inbox? Here's a funny thing, because I have a client using our stuff and they just sort of do some retargeting stuff in Sierra. And guess what? The first day she I think of seventy five people message her day one managing seventy five conversations at once. Right. As I say, is craziness. But that's the thing, that's the world we're moving to is less and less talking. Now let me give you some numbers on this. All right. This is the crazy stuff that I want you to write down. Last year, when my ISA's were setting appointments, 80 percent of the time it was with the voice, meaning we were talking them on the phone, talking details, setting the appointment 20 percent of the time we were texting.

[00:15:29] All right, this year, 20, 20, 50, 50, wow, OK.

[00:15:37] My projection is that by the end of next year, we're going to see the inverse of last year. We're going to see 80 percent of our appointments will be set via X and we'll never talk to them. Boyzvoice, because they look at you, man. Do you want to talk to me on the phone or can we just text you on the phone?

[00:15:55] I think my voicemail says if you have something you want to tell me, text me.

[00:16:01] And that's the world we're moving to. And this is the other funny thing is it's not just millennials. It's now Gen Xers. It's spreading because that's how these things always work. Right. This is going to expedite. My favorite story on this, by the way, is go look at people that are 15 to 20 years old and see what they do. Go ask them if they ever, ever answer a random phone call. They will undoubtedly tell you, no, they don't even answer their mom and dad's phone calls. They text their mom and dad back. That's the world we're moving to. Think about the most dominant companies today, Facebook, Amazon, Apple. Who are the first people using it? Those dang young college kids, right, every single time, if you ever want to see the future, go look at the kids. And that's just what I always do as a forecaster. I don't look what I'm doing today. That's a terrible business strategy. I try to think where things are going. And what I'm really here to help you all wake up to is texting is going to be the core foundation for conversion of the future. Now, here's the cool thing is you can automate so much of it. Now there's a balance. Cody, who you met Zack. Right. Cody Meyer. Not only what you all need to realize is automation doesn't just solve all your problems. If anything, it can create extra problems. Imagine if you're automating messages to all your brand new leads and nobody ever a response when the lead response, you've just created a bigger issue. Not only did you have leads, you weren't reaching out to. Now you've reached out to them. They responded and nothing happened. That's a worse problem. So that's the thing I hope you all really wake up to is that speed delete is going to disappear speed.

[00:17:46] The response is going to be the main KPI, meaning how long as a lead response just sitting in your inbox before you respond to it and then speed the service on the last note, speed the service is simply the idea of how quickly are you able to get in front of somebody. And for us, our whole model, our real estate team. And again, to kind of give you all some background, our production is up thirty five percent this year. And you want me to tell you something very transparent that I think a lot of people this year think their businesses are really great because they're up five, 10 percent. And then I go and ask, how much is your market up? And they say five, 10 percent. And I say, no, your market is making you better, not you are markets up about 10 percent. We're up thirty five percent. And one of the biggest things up is playing into that is we've automated so much with our leads of automating these messages and having our ISA's handle those responses. And then, of course, our model is built off the idea that we don't the whole showing partner model is we don't ever just give somebody anything. They have to earn it. Right. That's what's so genius about our model of agents. We don't hire agents we hire showing partners who earn the right to become an agent. But the great thing about that is because we have extra manpower that's built into our system, our speed to service so much quicker than that agent who's trying to balance forty five different things that way more.

[00:19:12] That's what Mike was talking about the other day.

[00:19:14] Yeah. So speed, speed leaders is still a big thing. It's going to go down an important speed. The response is huge and speed to service man is everything. So that's it. That's what I wanted to bring for you all today.

[00:19:27] I love it. So couple of questions I wanted to dig into to here. Yeah. And please people, if you have questions for Robby from the comments, we'll bring them up on screen. What's your life? So texting. There was a time, and I think a lot of people still have this belief that that's sending a text, especially an unwarranted text is a little obtrusive, right, that the text message in a box was almost like this holy thing that you. Is that changing? Have you found ways to.

[00:19:59] That is a really good question. Let me just name this, a lot of people think they're using texting in the wrong way. And what I mean by that is they think that what what they think texting can be used for is disseminating information, sending you information about us. My team links and this is what I'll tell you, is Twilio, who actually is one of the biggest texting communication providers for all businesses, I wouldn't be surprised if Sisu uses it in some fashion. Almost everybody does. They have literally said you are not to use texting to send out marketing or sales based information. They have literally told users that's an inappropriate use of text messages. And the reason is think about this. The thing people need to know what texting is. The carriers, AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, are deathly afraid that your text message inbox that you said that becomes your email inbox. The funny thing is we all have to emails. Almost everyone I've met has to. One is your authentic email that I can email zakat. The other one is your junk e-mail that you give to get 20 percent off a target or whatever is going on. Right. And I never check it. They're afraid that the phone number becomes that.

[00:21:18] By the way, phone numbers won't exist, in my opinion, in 10, 20 years, just that we'll come back, know we've got to wrap before I can dove into that.

[00:21:28] Will put the point I'm getting at here is texting the use of it. Literally, the socially acceptable use is a form of avoiding to communicate in a conversational manner, meaning everything you should be sending to lead shouldn't be. Hey, I got a bunch of new listings I want to send out to you that sales and marketing, you're in a lot higher risk of being flagged by the carriers. And then I'm literally not delivering your messages. Rather send messages like, hey, Zach saw that you were looking at some homes on one of our websites. I just wanted to see where you just looking for fun or you think about making a move that's conversational, right? That sounds like I'm a friend texting you, and I think that's going to be your mindset.

[00:22:15] And what I see is a lot of people violate that. And frankly, that's what frustrates us. Right. Think about the spam text you get. That's the other thing that's happening is you get spam text now. And what I always tell people is if you see a spam text, anything they're doing in there, make sure you do the opposite. And here's what you'll notice is in a spam text, I will send you a link every single time. Right. And so that's the thing. Try almost never to send links to the carriers are seeing that and they can't tell. Are you spamming somebody or is this authentic? What I can tell you, it's very rare that you're sending a link to a friend just in mass to people. That's very rare. Now, if I'm sending you a link, you know, because we've had a conversation back and forth 20 times, totally different story. But you know damn well that the carriers are using some form of A.I. to filter through all these messages to find what is junk and what isn't. And really, the red flags you need to think about are sending a ton of messages at once. Is a red flag sending spam oriented stuff with a bunch of links in it. John, if you're getting crappy response rates right or you're getting a lot of stops, you know darn well these carriers are measuring that and they're looking at it and they know, OK, this person is sending junk, we're going to start adversely affecting their messaging. So you've got to send things that seem authentic, that seem conversational in nature or in nature. That's what you got to do.

[00:23:39] So you guys then are doing almost. So maybe walk me through your lead a little bit. But I know you have a pretty massive data. You have a ton of leads. And in Sierra, right? You run in Sierra. Is it I mean, you guys aren't are you doing a lot of cold prospecting out there? Is it mainly inbound leads? Are old leads, people who even if it's like a fringe of a connection, they kind of know who you are and that's who you're reaching out to.

[00:24:06] The first thing I'll be very clear about is you can only text leads with automated anything to leads that have explicitly opted in. For example, I can't take a list of expired lists and put them in Sierra and put them on message and plans.

[00:24:20] I mean, that's just not going to get sued, right?

[00:24:25] I should get sued. Now, the big thing is we're really heavy into pay per click. We use Tiaro for to use while upo for PPC and retargeting and they've been a huge asset to us as well and creating opportunities. We're really happy in the PPC, about sixty five. Seventy percent. I forget the exact number of our leads are coming from some form of PPC lead source. And really a lot of people just hate those leads. And one data point for you all just to know is our average closing and this goes back to a year's worth of data now is six hundred and forty four days after a lead registers. And a lot of people here that they're like, that's B.S. Mine is two seventy.

[00:25:08] And here's what I'll tell you is we've, you know, much different than usual. So not only does my team follow up with somebody that's a year out or two years out, although we're automating all that now, more importantly, when somebody tells us, know what they're really saying and you need to realize this hopefully is they're saying not yet and then review them because think about it, the average person is buying or selling a home every seven years, give or take the stat always tandas, but more importantly, with young people, it's much more frequently than that, right?

[00:25:40] Every two, three or four years.

[00:25:42] And it's the old people in the home for twenty years that raise that STATA But the point in this is we keep converting old crap that everybody else is just letting sit in their database and frankly go into purgatory and die. We need to keep chasing them.

[00:25:57] We use automation to do that. So we put people in a nonintrusive plan. It literally reaches out very periodically. It's not pushy, it's not aggressive, but it is persistent and it's conversational. So if you told me, Zach, you weren't interested. You're going to get a text from me six months later saying, hey, Zach, we can act a little while back. I know you weren't really interested at that point. I just wanted to see if your plans have changed at all. And this is what people don't realize, right?

[00:26:22] There are some people that think you just get lucky in life. I don't believe in that. I think that's God. I think you create luck. And one of my favorite stories on this is Jim, one of my ISA's had somebody respond to a message just like that and they said, yeah, give me a call when you want to get a chance. Jim calls this person gets on the phone and he learns that this person he was just talking to who responded to an automated plan like this is they tell him, man, it's crazy. I just got your text literally just a few hours ago, I walked in my wife sleeping with the UPS guy.

[00:26:57] Right. Do we know as lead generators that this dude's wife cheating with the UPS guy?

[00:27:04] Hell no, I can't know that stuff. It's randomness. The reality is, is that random stuff happens in life. Did anybody know covid was going to completely shift and change the emotion of the world in March? Did anyone know this back in January, February? Probably not. These things are random. The world is really random, so we just don't give up. Our mindset is not yet. So we keep following up. But here's the thing, Zack. Where people go wrong is they're pushy and salesmen. And when you're pushy salesman and if you're always pushing stuff on people, guess what? When you follow up six months or 12 months later, they want to give you a middle finger.

[00:27:44] So here we go again.

[00:27:46] Here we go again. Here's this asshole who sent me this. Right. And that's not what people want. Instead, they want they want to know they're human. They want to know that you care, but not that you're pushing. And one of the biggest things I've learned is that you want to convert more leads. This is like an oxymoron. But if you want to convert more leads, let go of the attachment of the outcome care, ask questions and don't care whether they say yes or no. If anything, be excited about knows is a help you clean up your database. You know, it's a not yet or if anything, when I hear it. No, I want to find out why not. Yeah. And it because I'm naturally curious. I'm not being pushy or salesmen. They actually it's not them thinking I'm some sales person trying to screw them.

[00:28:33] So another Rovi, one question here. Lisa is asking a little more on the no side accounting text and text responses the same way as you count dials and conversations on the on the on the phone.

[00:28:49] So we would count a contact the way we describe it. So I'll just tell you how we do it. So we count calls separately than texts. We've always counted text and emails as Max attempts. Now, when a contact for us is anytime somebody is throwing the ball back. So let's say I have an auto message going out to you, Zach, and you respond. And now we're engaged in a texting conversation. We've texted back and forth twenty times that would not count as twenty contacts or twenty text to one contact and technically one text that maybe I was sending out how we've internally counted so we don't have stupid crazy numbers. What I will say is my ISA's. I'll share one little tidbit on this that's really fascinating is a couple of weeks ago we only had three of our four ISA's working. One was selfishly on vacation, couldn't get she was on vacation and the other three that were back, they had thirty three appointments in a week. Just so we all know, that's a very average week. There's nothing remarkable about setting thirty three appointments in our world. It's a very normal week. We probably average right around thirty if you take into account ebbs and flows. You know, obviously being in Fargo in January, February, nobody wants to go outside because it's negative. Twenty degrees and you might die. It's not that cold, but we like to play it up a little bit. So they set thirty three appointments.

[00:30:08] What was really interesting was just how many calls collectively they made that whole week to set thirty three appointments at. A hundred and fifty. Hundred and fifty calls to lead, yet they set thirty three appointments. Here's the funny thing was they still each were averaging over 30 contacts per day. What? We were just working smarter, not harder.

[00:30:35] The whole old school model is call, call, call, call, call.

[00:30:38] And what we're seeing is a transition towards you can automate things and create the contact and start the conversation. That's the world we're living in. Mike is doing this at a high level and a bunch of other people now that are using some of our cell phones here as well. But it's really, I think, the future, because again, man, if I wanted to get a hold of you, Zack, if I kept calling and calling and maybe one more thing I share with you, that's very unique. We've got a few more minutes. Can I go?

[00:31:06] We've got we're running up on our next speaker, but yes, please. One more thing.

[00:31:10] So we did a beta test with Mike Novac, actually. And what we did was we basically AB tested a plan. So I want to do a division. We have two pools of leads and in one pool, these are all low quality leads. In one pool we only texted and emailed them in the other pool. We texted, emailed and we did voice mail drops. Right. So we built those in rationally. We could all think more attempts, higher response rate, more conversion rate. So we would think that that group versus group be the one with the voice mail drops should have a higher contact rate. The funny thing was three weeks in the testing is like he sends me a text. He's like, I think we need to take the boys and girls out. And really what it comes down to this is what we've learned is voice mail drops to low quality leads, new low quality leads. It reduce the contact rate 20 percent. I can't tell you why, man. I've been trying to figure this out. The only thing I can tell is I want to my wife and told her and she said the biggest thing about it was the fact that phone calls now are annoying. It frustrates her and anything associated with the phone call. A random phone call, let me add a random phone call makes people frustrated. So that's the unique thing. We're also doing a beta test where we're actually not going to call new leads at all. We're going to split the numbers. We'll come back and do a whole webinar with you on it so I can tell you is making us actually lower your contact rate. So I love it.

[00:32:41] Man, thank you so much for hopping on with us. Of course, it's stuff as as I expected.

[00:32:47] And let's do that webinar here and there. So I'd love to.

[00:32:52] Absolutely. Man. Thank you all for me. I love you all. So this community, Sarabi.

About the Author

Zac Muir
Director of Marketing and Sales

Zac is blessed to do what he loves - writing content, driving traffic, building sales funnels for SaaS companies, eating unhealthy amounts of cereal and living his best life with his beautiful wife.🍚